Porn, Privacy and Pain - Transcript

Porn, Privacy and Pain: The Rise of Image-based Abuse in Asia

A Conversation with Raquel Carvalho

00:00:02

Joanne Kuai     Welcome to the Nordic Asia podcast, the collaboration sharing expertise on Asia across the Nordic region. My name is Joanne Kuai. I'm a Ph.D. candidate at KarlstadUniversity, Sweden, and a visiting PhD student at a Nordic Institute of Asian Studies. Joining me today to talk about the rise of image based abuse in Asia is Raquel Carvalho, a journalist from Portugal and the Asia correspondent for the South China Morning Post, currently based in Hong Kong. I met Raquel when we were both working as journalists in Macao. She's carried her career to the neighbouring special administrative region and has been producing amazing investigative journalistic works and in-depth stories. Today. She's going to share with us one of her latest projects. Thank you very much for being here.

00:00:56

Raquel Carvalho          Hi, Joanne. Thank you very much for having me.

00:00:59

Joanne Kuai     Yeah. Shall we begin by talking about what is image-based abuse?

00:01:05

Raquel Carvalho          Image-based abuse can take many different forms, but it can be defined as non consensually taking, sharing or threatening to distribute nudes or more sexually explicit photos and videos. So this includes, for instance, filming sexual acts or uploading intimate images to online platforms without consent. There are cases where former partners and acquaintances use intimate images to seek reunion, sex or simply to damage another person's reputation. This form of abuse in particular, has become known as revenge porn, which is a term that listeners are probably familiar with. But experts say it should be avoided because it fails to highlight the attackers full range of motivations and also the impact on survivors. Then there are other forms of image-based abuse, for instance, online sextortion, which is often used to obtain money or more images from victims.

00:02:18

Joanne Kuai     And you've lately produced investigative journalism on image based-abuse in Asia. Can you tell us what have made you decided to report on such a topic and what are some of the major findings?

00:02:33

Raquel Carvalho          So we at the South China Morning Post, have the chance to apply for a grant from an Australian journalism centre called Judith Nielsen Institute, and we felt that this particular issue was an underreported topic. The Asia Pacific region, where we are based has the world's largest number of Internet users. And yet this remains an overlooked problem. And survivors still face a lot of victim blaming and stigma at the same time. We also felt that this was a very timely topic because more than ever, people were spending a lot of time online and non-profits were actually reporting an increasing number of victims of abuse during the covid-19 pandemic. So then we invited other news outlets from Indonesia, South Korea and the Philippines to work with us on this project. The project involves five newsrooms in total and several freelancers which allowed us to explore like the scope of image based abuse and its multiple layers in different countries.

Joanne Kuai     Can you give us some examples and the stories that you've discovered?

00:03:49

Raquel Carvalho

            So during these project, we spoke to activists, law enforcement officers, scholars, lawyers, and we were also able to interview about 20 survivors of abuse in 10 different countries, both in Asia and in Europe. We at SCMP ran a three-part series, which were like three in-depth features, and the first story that I worked on for this project was focus on the growing number of cases involving women who see their intimate images being released by partners, friends or acquaintances. As I mentioned before, these cases have increased in recent years and seem to have reached a peak during the pandemic. So this first story delves into the role of this type of nonconsensual images within the traditional porn industry. Our focus was on videos that were made and released without consent, not about videos produced by actors who chose to be there. And the reason why we focus on these was because many victims we talked to said they struggled to have their photos and videos removed from porn websites and other platforms. So the stories are both about the trauma that women need to deal with, but also about how difficult it is for them to seek justice. That was like the first long feature for this project. And then we published a second story which was focused on chatting groups, sharing nonconsensual content of women and also abusive images of children. For this piece in particular, I monitored a number of Telegram groups for several months and it was shocking to see how much content is out there. I'm talking about hundreds of photos and videos of women and girls, but also content of children, both young boys and young girls. Some of these groups share naked photos, explicit sex videos and also mobile phones or other personal details without the consent of women. In some instances, they openly referred to leaks of personal information. And I also saw users asking specifically for materials that involve children.

00:06:33

Raquel Carvalho          So the second story was mostly around chatting groups, which I was monitoring for several months. And then I worked on a third story, which was to show a different side of image-based abuse. And this story was focused on how sextortion syndicates in the Philippines and in some countries in Africa have profited millions from a growing number of victims in countries such as the UK. So we looked into the role of social media networks, wire transfer services and cryptocurrencies, and we interviewed a number of sextortion survivors. But the anchor of the story was a case involving Daniel Perry, who was a Scottish teenager who killed himself after being a victim of sextortion by a gang based in the Philippines. Perry was a very high profile case. A lot has been written about him. But almost 8 years after his death, no one has been convicted. So our work showed how difficult it is for victims and their families to achieve any form of justice, especially in cases like these that are cross-border cases.

00:07:53

Joanne Kuai     Yeah, this sounds like a very interesting story, but also quite disturbing to learn about. I'm just wondering, what is the challenge when you talk about this image-based abuse. What contributes to the rise of it?

00:08:08

Raquel Carvalho          Well, I think there are many factors that can explain the rise of image-based abuse in recent years and just the fact that now we are spending a lot more time online, it's a different way of attacking people, essentially. So there are many reasons why this is becoming an increasing problem. And then if we look at, say, teenagers who are using different social networks, the scope for abuse is quite big. So from our perspective as journalists covering this issue, I can tell you that the greatest challenge was definitely being immersed during several months in such a dark world. It did take a toll on many of the reporters involved because we had to conduct many sensitive interviews with victims of human rights abuse who are experiencing issues such as depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts even. And it was quite overwhelming to go through so many disturbing images on porn websites and on social media and chatting apps. You know, it was unavoidable to feel frustrated at times, especially as a female journalist, given how easily available these sort of content is and the fact that the impact of image based abuse, particularly on girls and women, has been largely ignored. But then at the end of the day, it was important to put many of those feelings aside and try to explain to the readers what we had seen and heard and show why this is an important issue, show the consequences that thousands of victims are bearing and highlight some of the entities that need to be held accountable.

00:10:09

Joanne Kuai     And that is great journalistic work. And I'm just also curious, you have a collaboration among all these newsrooms from different countries based in Asia. Are there any differences or characteristics of the stories discovered in these particular regions? Is there any cultural differences, when it comes to the legal framework…?

00:10:34

Raquel Carvalho          Well, we focus on different issues because we have different audiences, essentially. For instance, our partners from the Philippines, they focused on the online sexual exploitation of children, so most of their stories were around specifically that topic, whereas, say our partners in South Korea, they produce an amazing documentary specifically about these Telegram groups and these men who was convicted after setting up the groups and basically profiting from these groups and abusing dozens of of girls. So each partner took a slightly different approach. But during the process, we share the interviews and contacts. For instance, what do we learn from these these project? And in my case, our three part series were covered different countries from Hong Kong, Singapore to Malaysia. The fact is that there are many similar issues that victims face regardless of the place where they are based in. But it depends a lot on the regulations of each place, the laws available, how open the police is to handle these cases and pursue them. And also it depends a lot on the support networks available. So it varies a lot. But at the end of the day, I would say that the main challenges that victims face are quite similar.

00:12:18

Joanne Kuai     And this is the comparison among the countries in Asia. And we know this is also like a kind of a global phenomenon, the image-based abuse. Have you observed any similarities and differences between the image based abusing Asia in comparison to the West?

00:12:35

Raquel Carvalho          Well, I don't think I am in a position to make a very thorough analysis of that, because obviously I interviewed a limited number of people and most of them were based in Asia. I wouldn't say that there is a major difference in terms of human rights abuse, per say. Victims from Asia to the West face many similar challenges, but the technology use varies from country to country. And the same happens in terms of legislation. Say, for instance, places like Taiwan and Cambodia don't have specific laws to tackle image based abuse. As far as I am aware. For instance, UK has been introducing a number of laws that are focused on this issue, and it seems that they are leading the way when we think about Europe. But then there are a number of cultural issues and a lack of awareness around the problem, which I don't think it's exclusive to Asia. But many of the interviewees mentioned the fact that Asian cultures are still very conservative. Sex is still a big taboo. There is a lot of victim blaming. So many of the victims said they were afraid of sharing their experiences even with close friends and relatives. And they did mention some cultural issues that were specific to to their places.

00:14:12

Joanne Kuai     I'm also interested in the role of technology in this image-based abuse, because from which you mentioned the Telegram chat rooms, when we think about this kind of messaging apps facilitating communication among people, for example, even in activism, but at the same time, it's also being misused and abused in this kind of situations. And in your opinion, what is the role of technology in all this and who should be held accountable? The platforms or do we need harsher regulation?

00:14:49

Raquel Carvalho          Well, it's a very difficult question. As I was saying, it was quite shocking to see how easily available these materials are. For instance, when it comes to Telegram, anyone can join many of these groups and in some cases, you can even see the content without having to join them. After monitoring some of these groups for a while, it became obvious that many of their members take this issue very lightly and that the reporting mechanisms for abuse cases provided by some of these online platforms seemed quite inefficient. For instance, I reported one of the chatrooms through the Telegram's app, which has an option to flag a group for child abuse. But nothing happened after that. So many of the administrators and users of these groups seem to share a sense of impunity because there seems to be a little being done about these. I should also be fair, I mean, these analysis, in the sense that some social media companies have given increased attention to this issue, but image based abuse is still not a major priority, I would say. So I think that platforms need to invest more in technology and teams to monitor such content, and they need to be more proactive and responsive. Also, experts I talked to, they said that there should be greater transparency and more effective ways of sharing information about those who misuse these websites because some online platforms haven't provided enough assistance to the authorities even.

00:16:42

Joanne Kuai     This has been quite a gruesome image. But what has been done to curb this image-based abusing Asia. Is there any effort that's trying to tackle this problem?

00:16:58

Raquel Carvalho          Well, I would say that more countries are discussing laws to tackle image-based abuse, which is a good sign, and some positive steps have also been taken by some platforms. For instance, recently, Facebook, Google, Twitter and TikTok signed up to a pledge to fix persistance weaknesses in how they tackle online gender based violence. Let's see how that is going to be translated into practical terms. I should also mention some grassroots initiatives that have emerged recently. For instance, I talked to these university students in Singapore who is part of a group of other like-minded women and also a few men who go undercover and monitor Telegram groups that share nonconsensual images. And they also offer support to those who have been targeted, so there are other groups like these, what, like the specific one, elsewhere, for instance, in Malaysia, and there are also other like private initiatives. For instance, a few weeks ago, we also publish a story about this victim of abuse who is now launching an app that can help others to find their images online. So more is being done to tackle this issue for sure. But most experts and victims, they feel like that there still needs to be more awareness and education around this topic.

00:18:42

Joanne Kuai     You are definitely doing your part of work to raise awareness  Yeah.

Raquel Carvalho          Hope so.

Joanne Kuai     I know this investigation took place during the time of covid, is that correct?

Raquel Carvalho          Yes, that's correct.

Joanne Kuai     And how has that impacted your reporting?

00:19:01

Raquel Carvalho          So that was a challenge in itself, obviously, because we couldn't travel as much as we wanted to. It would have been better to meet the reporting partners face to face and do the underground reporting together and do more face to face interviews. So we had to use video and phone calls. And we try to go around a lot of the covid-19 restrictions that were in place in these different countries. So it was definitely an additional challenge. We still managed to cover many different countries, both in Asia and Europe, and we ended up sharing the materials like interviews and contacts and so on.

00:19:53

Joanne Kuai     I'm just wondering as an individual, what can we do? Is there anything we can do to help stop this abuse?

00:20:02

Raquel Carvalho          I think for sure that education and awareness, as I was saying, should be the very first steps talking about this issue. After these stories were published, I received a number of emails from other survivors who felt that they hadn’t found a platform to share their stories. They felt that this issue hadn't been covered in such depth or a comprehensive manner previously. So I would say talking about these problems and realizing that this is actually very prevalent, I think, it's the very first step and that each one of us can do that. I think many people, as I was saying, many of these same members of these groups, they don't realize how serious their actions are. And essentially because people take the approach of, oh, this is like funny or this is just an entertainment. And they don't they don't acknowledge how damaging this can be for, for instance, the women whose photos are shared on these platforms. So definitely education. So parents talking to their children about this problem, telling their children that this is a problem, it's not OK to share other people's images without their consent, also to be aware of the impact of such actions. And then, you know, this is what individually we can do. I think other experts will be in a better position to to elaborate on that. But then you know what? Other experts and victims also said it was law enforcement agencies, for instance. They should put more resources into investigating these cases and also into learning how to deal with victims in a more sensitive way. I think especially with women and girls, quite often it's not seen as a major problem. If you if you don't talk to people who went through these these issues.

00:22:29

Joanne Kuai     What do you mean by that?

00:22:31

Raquel Carvalho          Some people think that it's not … they don't see it as a major problem. Just, oh, it was just a photo. Forget about that.

00:22:40

Joanne Kuai     You mean the victims themselves?

00:22:42

Raquel Carvalho          No, say the the the authorities or the people they talk to sharing their stories quite often their problem is not seen as a priority.

00:22:55

Joanne Kuai     Like families and close friends and even authorities?

00:22:58

Raquel Carvalho          Yes. Because, for instance, some images were shared between the victim and another person. And these other person shared those images with a group, for instance. And so sometimes there is that sort of victim blaming talk. That is why did you share those photos in the first place? So I would say that in terms of like probably one of the first steps should be changing mentalities, like realizing that consent, be it if we are face to face or in the online world, is important.

00:23:43

Joanne Kuai     Like if I want to share intimate photo with you is a matter between those two and you don't have my consent to share.

Raquel Carvalho          Yeah. Exactly

Joanne Kuai     And for the other parties, if I were to talk about it, you shouldn't take the approach of victim blaming.

00:23:58

Raquel Carvalho          Exactly.

00:23:59

Joanne Kuai     As you mentioned, the victims themselves or people who run into these problems, they have places to go for support. I mean, NGOs that you mentioned or the app that you mentioned that they were buliding…

00:24:16

Raquel Carvalho          I think many places lack strong networks of support. I remember one of the advocates I spoke to, she said that one of the main issues is that it takes so much effort for the victims to report their cases. All the different steps are completely separated, meaning that victim needs to go to the police, and then if she wants to receive psychological support, she needs to go to an NGO. And then if she needs something else, legal advice, she needs to go to a different, say, NGO. So what this advocate said  was that it's important to have these different elements around the same table. So there is a stronger network of support for people who are going through this problem. And that would probably make people to be more comfortable in reporting their cases and coming out and so on. So what I've seen is that many of these victims, they rely on NGOs who are often obviously have limited resource and struggle to to respond to everyone. So at the end of the day, I think there is a lack of proper networks of support, but obviously it depends from country to country.

00:25:51

Joanne Kuai     Mm hmm. Yeah. And now we're taking the first step, at least in raising awareness, and hopefully it's going to trigger more like a culture change. And before I let you go, I'm going to ask you, what are some of the ongoing projects you working on? Are you going to follow up on the story? And what's the future plan?

00:26:10

Raquel Carvalho          Well, we are actually now discussing other potential stories. So the group of reporting partners who took part in this collaboration is actually thinking about continuing collaborating. So we are already discussing other potential ideas. It is still unusual to see these sort of collaboration led by Asia based organizations and highlighting underreported issues with a focus on Asian communities and also on stories that connect Asia to other parts of the world like this one did. We do hope that our project sets a sort of precedent for other similar collaborations to take place, and we are definitely working on some follow up stories. So we will be publishing more stories around this issue of image-based abuse for sure.

00:27:16

Joanne Kuai     Thank you so much for your amazing work. And we really look forward to reading more of your reports on these stories. And thank you so much again for joining here us today. So to our listeners, you can read the stories on South China Morning Post website. We will provide links in the show notes. Do check that out. And thank you for listening to the Nordic Asia podcast showcasing Nordic collaboration and studying Asia.